Byron Katie – Interview

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Readers can identify with relevant stand-ins such as Elizabeth Gilbert in Eat, Pray, Love or Dan Harris in the #1 hit 10% Happier. These characters begin neurotic and normal, and then take readers on a trip to something somewhat less neurotic (and less normal).

The second sort is less common: someone who has basically thrown themselves into the deep end and is writing from a place of enlightenment, freedom, or whatever. We assume that many of these folks are con artists. Some, though, appear to be genuine, such as Oprah’s guru Eckhart Tolle and 1960s star Ram Dass. Which, of course, simply adds to our skepticism.

Byron Katie is in the second group, with the piercing wisdom of a Zen master and the appearance of a less-made-up Paula Deen. Katie herself reached rock bottom in 1986, suffering from major depression, suicidal despair, and an inability to function as a mother, wife, or anything else.

Then something strange happened. Katie is too sophisticated to term it “enlightenment,” but it was some type of… change.

Katie suddenly recognized, as she writes in her new book, A Mind at Home with Itself, co-written with her husband, poet and translator Stephen Mitchell, that the plethora of notions and assumptions she was carrying about really weren’t that dependable. When they were handled gently, all of the clichés about the present moment—radiant, pure, no trouble, compassionate—came true.

Katie states in the opening chapter, “My despair had nothing to do with the world around me.” “It was brought on by my beliefs about the world.” I learned that when I believed my ideas, I suffered, but when I didn’t, I didn’t, and that this is true for every human being. “It’s as easy as that.”

I recently asked Katie how she does it over tea at a New York City hotel where she was staying during her book tour. How does she manage to be both uncompromising in her own opinion (more on that later) and a best-selling author?

Katie said, “Because this thing works.” “It doesn’t require a teacher or another human being to perform it.” It is completely free.”

Katie was referring to a seemingly basic practice known as “The Work.” In The Work, you investigate a particularly vexing thought—my spouse is rude, my career is unfulfilling, the world is a shambles, whatever—and investigate it. Do you honestly believe it’s true? What would you be like if it didn’t exist? What would happen if you “flipped it” on yourself?

These questions may appear mundane on paper. In practice, they induce a type of radical skepticism about your own beliefs and prejudices, which may be quite enlightening. After our interview, I completed The Work with Katie on my envy of other writers and began weeping in that midtown hotel. She made me understand that I was happier with my life than they were with theirs. For a little moment, at least.

For another example, Katie stated that in most of our interactions, “you truly are who I imagine you to be—and this is always incorrect.” That is why inquiry is so critical. We never interact with each other; we deal with our own inner existence.”

Many of my critical journalism colleagues, not to mention my “social justice warrior” pals, have expressed concern that all this “get happy” nonsense is egocentric, puerile, and mushy-headed.

“I enjoy skepticism,” Katie stated. “I believe it is quite beneficial.”

Mitchell said, “The Work is the core of skepticism.” “If doubting New Yorkers would look deeper and themselves, they would realize that what they believe they know isn’t actually true.”

“Katie is a radical instructor masquerading as a charming person who calls you’sweetheart.'”

I responded that knowing stuff is the name of the game when you live in New York: which subway to take home, how much a Snapple costs at a bodega, how not to get taken advantage of on the street…

“And why am I so terrified?” Katie stepped in.

As I already stated, this is a difficult city.

“I know!” Katie responded. “I went out after leaving my handbag in a coffee shop or whatever years ago.” Then I recalled and returned for it, but it had vanished.”

But then Katie said something unexpected. “My mind instantly began working on what they would do with my credit cards and money, but then I thought about them seeing my children’s picture—and I thought about the joy, you know, it can offer to anyone.”

Mitchell replied, “I recall you talking about the present that the individual may give to his girlfriend.”

“Or food for a youngster,” Katie said. “Or booze, whatever—we need what we believe we need when we don’t.”

So she had her handbag taken yet was filled with pleasure and compassion? Really? This, I remarked, sounds dramatically different from most people’s lives. Is it even possible to live a regular life?

“For me, it’s a matter of whether or not people suffer in it,” Katie explained. “I haven’t talked to anyone doing The Work who feels compelled to pursue something specific with his life.” “Everything is under scrutiny.”

Even, apparently, how much it annoys you when someone takes your belongings.

But wait a second, I said. Some notions are critical, such as “racism is evil.” Do we really want to call it into doubt as well?

“Yes,” she said, “because you’re more likely to comprehend racists.” You’re more inclined to hold rational conversations. You’re more inclined to learn, listen, broaden your horizons, and discover common ground.”

“One successful type of inquiry would be to probe into a remark like, ‘I’m outraged about racists because they’re hurting the country,’ or something to that effect,” Mitchell said. The truth is that, even if it originates from a place of justice and compassion, that thinking may create immense tension, and when you study it, you will discover some really intriguing animals that dwell in the darkness under that notion. And it’s in everyone’s best interests to be explicit about it.”

Katie is a radical teacher masquerading as a pleasant lady who addresses you as “sweetheart.” Consider the following paragraph from A Mind at Home with Itself: “It’s all a dream—all of existence, everything.” Nothing ever is; nothing ever can be, since the moment it appears to be, it is gone. This is just funny.”

This isn’t the cozy spirituality that, example, Eat, Pray, Love provides to the general public. It’s almost brutally uncompromising, despite the fact that it’s given in polite and soothing tones.

But, considering how affluent and blessed I am, aren’t I being irresponsible if I’m feeling spiritually joyful about being robbed or bigots trashing the country?

“Isn’t it strange how people link those two things [happy and recklessness] when that’s just not the case?” Katie asked. “You know, the Dalai Lama has a wonderful sense of humour.” He appears to be a decent, clear, and brilliant individual.”

We sat there for a while, possibly pondering on the atrocities the Dalai Lama has witnessed in his life, how much responsibility he bears, and how his people are currently the victims of the world’s greatest ethnic cleansing effort.

Or maybe I was simply thinking that. Perhaps Katie was simply enjoying the moment.

Katie confronts the “enlightenment” topic halfway through A Mind at Home with Itself. “People used to ask whether I was enlightened,” she recalls, “and I used to answer, ‘I don’t know anything about it.'” I’m just someone who understands what hurts and what doesn’t.’

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